Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:23 Hi, welcome to the PT. Talk a place where physical therapists can share,
Speaker 2 00:00:27 Grow and learn.
Speaker 1 00:00:28 Here is your host, Dr.
Speaker 2 00:00:30 Karen Schuler. All right. I wanna welcome everybody to this show, the lifestyle PT talk. Uh, I am your host, Dr. Karen Schuler and I am here today with Dr. Lance Mabry with Highpoint university. So, hi, Lance. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 00:00:46 Oh, thank you so much for having me
Speaker 2 00:00:48 Lance, before we get started with our topics. Um, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3 00:00:54 Oh yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I'm gonna an assistant professor at Highpoint university where I teach in our primary care curriculum, uh, focusing on diagnostic imaging topics and, uh, differential diagnosis and the like, uh, I also teach in our professional content looking at, you know, the APTA, what is a physical therapist? What is a PTA and, and, and similar topics. Uh, my research is focused primarily on physical therapy interaction with diagnostic imaging and, and how that looks in clinical practice. Uh, my background was I, I graduated from us army Baylor in, uh, oh my goodness. I forget the year. Um, and, uh, from there I went on, uh, to a career in the air force where I served in operation enduring freedom and Iraqi freedom. Uh, I retired from the air force, uh, a couple of years ago and, um, uh, I am a board certified orthopedic specialist and I am a fellowship trained, uh, physical therapist through Kaiser Permanente, uh, primary manual care, uh, primary care and manual therapy fellowship.
Speaker 2 00:01:58 Well, as, as a mom of soldiers, um, I certainly appreciate your service, uh, to our country. Thank you. And glad that you're using now your unique, um, skill sets to further our physical therapy practice. So we're gonna discuss today, um, you know, Lance brings a certain perspective as far as what it's like to get into PT school and what some of those challenges are. And so we hope to, you know, give you some tools and some tips to make that process a little more effective for you. So Lance, you know, why don't you explain what some of the unique challenges that arise in a, in a doctor of physical therapy admission?
Speaker 3 00:02:41 Uh, yes. Ma'am so, uh, one of the things that's different in D P T admissions versus undergraduate admissions is in a D P T program. We are limited by the number of students we can accept, uh, that is different than a lot of undergraduate where universities, uh, tend to, to do better financially if they have more undergraduates. So they're, they're trying to up their numbers and, and improve the number of people that are walking through the door. Um, but on the, the D P T side, they're limited by, uh, Capt limitations. So therefore, uh, getting the best qualified candidates into those positions, uh, is important. Um, and a lot of that has to do with, um, kind of a, a moral obligation, right? We, we want students that show up to be successful that will ultimately graduate and, and get the N PTE, uh, cuz we certainly don't want anybody, you know, burdened with student loan debt that that isn't going to be successful.
Speaker 3 00:03:36 And when we look at the, the numbers that are coming out of, of CAPI, uh, the average physical therapy program gets 254 qualified applicants a year. And out of those 254 qualified applicants, only 96 will ultimately get offers. That means that, wow, the average program has 160 students or roughly 60% of their applicants are qualified, but won't even get an offer. So, um, those are, those are some of the challenges we're seeing. Um, uh, that being said they, they are working well. Um, if you actually look nationwide, uh, the average graduation rate, uh, across D P T programs is roughly 97% of students. So that means if you are one of the lucky people to get accepted into PT school, uh, your chances of, of matriculating through and ultimately graduating are, are exceptionally high.
Speaker 2 00:04:28 Well, that's good to know. I know that gives the, the applicant a little more confidence and if they make it through the process, they're gonna make it through the program. Can you explain a little bit what cap D is?
Speaker 3 00:04:39 Uh, yes. So, uh, Capt is the commissioner on accreditation for physical therapy education. Uh, they are the accrediting body for, uh, all D P T programs in the United States. So ultimately they decide, um, what criteria need to be met, uh, in order for a physical therapy program to, to be accredited in the United States.
Speaker 2 00:04:59 And can you sit for the boards if you are not part of an accredited program?
Speaker 3 00:05:04 Uh, I do. I don't believe you can so, well, I, I think you can sit for the boards, like if you're a foreign trained PT, uh, there are different criteria that I'm not spun up on. Um, uh, we'd have to look at the, the FSB PT website for that.
Speaker 2 00:05:19 Okay. All right. So which criteria are most predictive of the applicant's success in getting into school?
Speaker 3 00:05:27 Yeah, so there's, there's been a lot of research on this, cuz this is a, a central focus of admissions committees, um, throughout the us. So, um, what they've found of students that will ultimately graduate and then, and then past the N PTE, right? Because if, if students graduate, but they can't PE pass the N PT, they can't be a physical therapist. So, so looking at the research out there, the two most predictive things of success on the N PT is undergraduate GPA, as well as, uh, the GRE scores as far as an admissions criteria. So, uh, if you look across programs nationwide, uh, the average GPA, uh, per, per CAPI of, of those getting admitted into PT schools, roughly three, five. Um, so if you're, if you're above a three, five, you're looking pretty solid. If you're getting below a three, five, um, things might look tentative depending on where you're applying. Uh, the other criteria criteria I mentioned was GRE scores. So when you look at the research, uh, they start talking about people that dip below the 30th percentile on any component as tending to have, uh, higher probability of failure of the N PT. So, uh, if you've taken the N if you've taken the GRE and you're scoring below that 30th percentile, that that might be a bit of a red flag to programs.
Speaker 2 00:06:49 Okay. And the 3.5 is, is that looked at as your total GPA or do they look more at your sciences and those types of things?
Speaker 3 00:06:58 Yeah, that's a great question. So the, the three, five is the overall GPA. Um, when you look in math science GPA, it tends to be a, a little bit lower, uh, overall by a couple points. Um, I, they don't report that on the, the cap D reports that I've seen. Um, but, but they do report other things like, so for instance, we could talk about this later when we get to, uh, where people should apply, but, um, public schools tend to have higher GPAs. So, uh, those that are getting admitted into public schools, the average GPA is roughly three seven. Um, for those getting accepted into a private school, it's closer to three, four. So those with lower GPAs might, might consider looking at private school, um, potentially as a, as a better option for them. Um, so math science GPA tends to be, uh, a couple points lower. So I, I can speak to my, uh, my four years of experience on the admissions committee at high point university, um, are math science GPA tends to be about three tenths of a point lower than the overall GPA for our applicants.
Speaker 2 00:08:05 Okay. So for those that might be struggling to get into PT school or saying, I don't have that 3.5 GPA. What advice can you give them?
Speaker 3 00:08:15 Uh, yeah, that's a great question. So some universities do look at more recent trends in GPA. So if an applicant has, um, you know, a borderline GPA, uh, so say maybe a three oh to a three, two, or something like that, um, some universities might look at, you know, what they've done in their junior and senior year versus their freshman year. So if they had a rough freshman year, but a better junior senior year, uh, that might, that might look favorably upon 'em it does work obviously the other way. Right. So if they had a great freshman year and now they're trailing off in the junior senior year, that can, that can reflect negatively also, um, those students that have that kind of borderline GPA, I'd say that three oh to three, two range. Um, they can always consider retaking some of their, uh, their math or science or prerequisite courses if they've scored below a three.
Speaker 3 00:09:06 Oh, uh, that might be a way to kind of, you know, get them right over the edge if they're having a hard time getting into PT school. Um, and I'm seeing this from a, from a position of experience as well. So I, I actually applied to PT school, uh, my first time and, and did not get in. And then I had to reapply the second year. So I've, I have gone through this process. There's no shame in it. Um, and just understanding what, what hurdles people need to overcome to, to get to where they need to be. Um, if people, however, have a, a GPA that's, uh, substantially lower. So let's say they're below a three. Oh. Um, when you actually look at the amount of time it would take, so, so if somebody has a two oh GPA, let's say, um, they would need to take an entire four years of undergraduate level courses at a four oh GPA to get back to a three.
Speaker 3 00:09:52 Oh, if you just do the math real quick. So, um, there does come a point where retaking a couple of courses is not going to have a substantial impact. And for, uh, for those that are facing that if physical therapy is where they wanna be, um, they might wanna consider, uh, getting enrolled into a, a master's level program. That's a, a separate line item. When you look at the, um, uh, when you look at the application, uh, application, <laugh> the application application when you <laugh>, when you look at the application website, uh, graduate, um, graduate GPAs on a separate line item than undergraduate GPA. So, uh, so doing a year of master's work, maybe in a biomechanics position or something like that, um, might look more favorably than doing a another year of, of retaking of undergrads. Um, some of the other things to consider, uh, obviously we, we mentioned this, uh, a few minutes ago, but, um, private schools tend to have lower GPA requirements.
Speaker 3 00:10:48 Um, so because of that, uh, students might consider applicants might consider, uh, including at least one private school when they're applying to different universities. Um, and as mentioned before, CAPI shows that the, the average GPA of, uh, public schools nationwide, uh, enrollee ends up being roughly 3.7, versus those in private schools is three, four. Um, and then finally, again, for those that are, that are struggling to get in, if, if you have a GRE that's below the 30th percentile, uh, I would suggest, you know, really focusing on a, a good study guide for the GRE and retaking it, um, that will show the programs that you can be successful on, uh, standardized testing, because at the end of your PT program, you will take the N PTE, which is a standardized test, and you will have to pass that in order to, uh, to be a physical therapist.
Speaker 2 00:11:42 You brought up some really good points. I, I had really never considered the factor or been able to guide, um, some of our students towards a master's program. So many people are retaking courses, but that's a great idea, uh, to go into a master's program. And that way, you're not only just continuing your own knowledge, but maybe setting yourself up for more success in getting into PT school. So,
Speaker 3 00:12:05 Yeah, and the idea behind that would be for cost effectiveness, right? So if, if you were substantially below and you actually look at how many courses you would need to take or retake, uh, in order to get that G GPA up, the, the idea is not do more schooling just to do more schooling, but, but going to that master's might be a more cost effective approach than, than just retaking courses over and over.
Speaker 2 00:12:27 Yeah. That's great. So going, let's talk a little bit about the application process. Um, what role does the interview have on the application?
Speaker 3 00:12:37 Yeah, so, uh, the interview, uh, or the interview, um, some schools interview, um, some schools don't. Um, so if those, if you're a student that has a, uh, a questionable, um, GRE or questionable GPA, um, you might wanna look for those schools at interview cause they might find that some of that face-to-face interaction is going to kind of put you over the edge. Um, not a lot of schools are, are doing interviews. Uh, so I know at high point university we are, um, that kind of goes along with, uh, the SA, right? So the, uh, the SA is part of the PT CA application. And, uh, as we look at that, some of the research that discusses the essay is that it has a, uh, reasonably negligible role on, uh, N PTE success and, and, and ultimately admissions into program. So, um, so what I would suggest to people that, you know, as they're completing their, their essay, um, they can kind of approach it, you know, two different ways.
Speaker 3 00:13:37 So, you know, as we, uh, as we read these essays, you know, pretty much, uh, I, I would say, I don't know, 90% or more of them read almost the exact same way. And, and they talk about, um, you know, I was an athlete, I had an injury, I got rehabilitated and my physical therapist was awesome. And, and now here I am and, and, um, and no shame in that essay, I, I wrote that exact same essay when I got in the PT school. I, you know, I broke my, um, I broke my, uh, MC on my right hand playing football. Uh, I ended up it broke right through the growth plate. So I needed surgery. I saw an occupational therapist afterwards, and then, you know, the rest is history. So, um, so we see a lot of those and, and those kind of essays will blend in.
Speaker 3 00:14:18 And, and if you're looking to blend in, right, if you have a 3 85 GPA, uh, blending in, might be great for you because you're, and you can kind of let your GPA stand by itself and, and you can coast to, to acceptance. But, um, but if you are one of those students, that's kind of borderline, and you're trying to set yourself apart. Um, I would recommend trying to write something a little bit different and, um, you know, I, I, I would, I would love to see a student sometime, you know, apply and, you know, put a citation in there. You know, if, if you wanna, you know, if you wanna apply to whatever university, you know, if you wanna wanna apply to, uh, high point university, you know, look, look at who's there. And, oh, we have Dr. Taylor and Dr. Taylor is an ACL expert.
Speaker 3 00:14:59 And, you know, I tore my ACL. And, you know, as you write your, as you write your thing about how you injured your ACL, um, you know, drop a little citation by Dr. Taylor in there. So, uh, so if, uh, so the admissions committee, as they're looking at, it says, oh, you know, here they did their homework. And, and, uh, and they did their homework specifically on people at Highpoint university. And they must, they must really wanna come here. So, um, so if you're looking to set yourself apart, that might be a way to do it.
Speaker 2 00:15:25 That's great. I love, I love that. Cuz if you're amongst 254 people, you gotta find ways to set yourself apart. And I, I know when I was coming through PT school, which was during the dinosaur era 31 years ago, um, if you did shadowing hours, it actually set you apart and now that's a requirement. So I know you've gotta get a little bit more creative in how you're gonna set yourself apart now, but I know the biggest thing is, is they wanna make sure that you really wanna be there and fill that seat. Like you said, you're gonna be able to pass that exam and actually be a physical therapist. Um, so let's talk about shadowing hours, you know, how do programs view the shadowing hours?
Speaker 3 00:16:01 Yeah. So, uh, so you bring up a good point on shadowing hours. And I, I think that surround the idea behind it is program is wanna make sure that you've actually seen physical therapy and you know, what it is before you get into the program. And, uh, they wanna make sure that you are sold, that this is in fact, a profession for you, uh, so that you do once you come in, ultimately matriculate through graduate and, and become a physical therapist, because we do have a, a limited number of slots and we do have, you know, demand for physical therapy nationwide. We are, you know, looking to fill other roles as far as, you know, in treating long COVID and things like that. So, um, so ultimately graduating that student and getting 'em into the profession is, is the ultimate goal. So, um, so shadowing hours, uh, programs will, will have varying levels of how many hours they want.
Speaker 3 00:16:49 Um, I've seen anywhere from a hundred to 250 hours depending on the program. Um, some of the things with that is, you know, I'll see, I'll see applicants that really try to set themselves apart and they'll have, you know, thousands of hours of, of, uh, clinical shadowing hours. And, and that's great, but frankly, there, there comes a point where, um, your, your exposure within shouting hours is it's gonna max out, right? So whether you get, you know, the difference between 250 shadowing hours and, and 2,500 shouting hours from an applicant standpoint is, is probably not negligible. Um, but where people can really set themselves apart, if a, if a program's requiring a hundred hours, make sure that those 100 hours are in at least three different settings and make them distinctly different settings. So what I see each year is, uh, applicants will, you know, go to these clinics.
Speaker 3 00:17:47 And inevitably, I, I don't know where these clinics are, right. It'll be, you know, XYZ physical therapy. And it's not a, a, a clinic that I'm familiar with. And, and I don't know if it's pediatrics, I don't know if it's orthopedics. I don't know if it's acute care. I, I just don't know what it is. And then under, you know, what clientele they saw in this clinic, they'll put a whole laundry list, right? They'll click the ortho, neuropediatrics sports, like they'll click every box that's available. And it really makes it unclear as far as what's setting they're in. So, um, so lemme give you an example of that. So, you know, you're in a clinic and you see a 17 year old, um, uh, 17 year old patient that, uh, herniated a disc while they were playing tug of war. And now they have a, a lumbar ridiculopathy and you watch this patient.
Speaker 3 00:18:38 And then because of that, you check off while they're 17, I'm gonna check off pediatrics and they're in an orthopedic clinics while check that off and they have back pain and, you know, and it's to ridiculopathy well, that's nerve and I'll check out, you know, check neuro, uh, and they did it while playing tug of war. So I'll check off sports and then boom, just like that you have this whole laundry list of, of what you're seeing. So, um, what I would, what I would tell applicants is get a breadth of what you're seeing in, as far as different clinics go to an ortho clinic, go to pediatrics, go to a neuro clinic, you know, acute care, home health, things like that. And then when you are actually writing that out on PT CA make it very, very, very obvious what that clinic is. So if you are truly at a clinic that sees a diverse patient setting, you know, they're seeing an orthopedics one day and they're seeing neuro the next day and whatever else, and you want to check all those boxes.
Speaker 3 00:19:31 That's great. If that's a generalist clinic and they're, they're seeing a general, uh, outpatient, uh, schedule, that's fine, but then pick two other clinics that are not a generalist clinic. Maybe it's acute care, maybe it's home health, maybe it's pediatrics or neuro. And then when you fill that box out, make very clearly what, what it is, right? Click that pediatrics box, leave it alone. And then that way, as we're looking at those as committees, we can say, okay, not only do they see a general schedule, not only do they see an outpatient orthopedic schedule, but they also saw these other things. And even after seeing all these different, uh, settings, they still want to be a PT, which is important. And, and the reason that this is important as well, when you think about the, the physical therapist degree, the physical therapist degree is a very broad degree.
Speaker 3 00:20:21 So even if your interest is I'm gonna go, and I'm gonna be a sports PT, or I'm gonna go be an ortho PT or something along those lines, that's great. But the license will still, it's a broad license. When you graduate, you are still gonna be able to practice in any of these settings. You'll be able to practice in pediatrics. You'll be able to practice in, in acute care, home health, everything else, even if you're only interested in sports. So because of that, you need to, to have enough knowledge in these other settings in order to get degree. And then once you get the degree, then you can go on and specialize and, you know, get your board certification like I did, or your fellowship training or, or whatever. You can get that depth in whatever that field is you wanna, you want to get. Um, but the PT degree is that that opening amount of breadth that gets you in
Speaker 2 00:21:06 Now, when you guys are accepting students, do you take that into consideration at all? I mean, do they tell you what area they're interested in and what they're looking to go into?
Speaker 3 00:21:15 We do. Yes. So we have at Highpoint university, I think the hours that we acquire are a hundred hours of shadowing. Um, but one of the main criteria we look at is, is breadth of settings. So if, if people have, you know, a thousand hours, but it's only in one setting, they're probably not gonna maximize their points. Um, if people have a hundred hours, but they have that, you know, that solid three different settings, it's going to, uh, really separate them out from the pack.
Speaker 2 00:21:41 But you guys don't look at, well, this person's interested in neuro or this person's interested in orthopedics, which I know that can change in PT school, but you're not trying to, you're not looking at what categories they're interested in when it comes to admission.
Speaker 3 00:21:55 No, I, I, I think sometimes that can make for an interesting essay. So if people know that they wanna go into pediatrics or they know where they wanna go into acute care or things like that, um, that can make for some interesting topics in the essay, cause that doesn't, that doesn't always come forward in the essay. Um, but, uh, but no, most, I would say there's a good number of, uh, enrollee that aren't sure what they wanna do. And, um, and if you actually look, it's, it's interesting first day, you know, you ask, you ask people, you know, oh, well, you know, what setting do you wanna work in? And, you know, 80% of people will raise their hand and, you know, I, I wanna be in sports, I'm gonna be the next, I'm gonna be the next PT for the Patriots. And, and, uh, you know, and then as they go through the program and they get more and more exposed to these different settings, uh, those numbers tend to tend to trickle down. And, and usually by the, by the time people are ready to graduate, you know, instead of 80% of the class, it might be 10% or fewer that are, that are looking at going in sports. So, um, so that's not something that, or that's not something we at least that we look at, uh, internally, as far as where people want to go,
Speaker 2 00:22:59 Let's talk about the number of students that get accepted. Can you speak to how that's regulated?
Speaker 3 00:23:06 Uh, yes. So cap CAPI puts a limit on how many, uh, students can go to a, a particular program. So, and they, they do that as part of the accreditation process in order to, um, make sure that a program has the adequate number of faculty that the program has the adequate resources and everything else. They, they really do it to protect the students. So, um, now a program can go over that cap by a certain percent. Uh, so, so for instance, we, at high point university, we are, uh, accredited for 60 spots. Um, in a particular year, we can go upwards of 10% of that 60. So, you know, we might might be able to get to 66 in a particular year. Um, uh, but then programs can't do that consistently, cuz then that, that starts raising some red flags. So, um, so programs are, are caps.
Speaker 3 00:23:57 So, um, looking at as well, the number of, uh, qualified applicants, those that are getting, getting offers. And then those that will ultimately matriculate. You know, we talked about before the, uh, the number of the number of applicants is roughly 254 per program. Uh, the numbers accepted is in the, the low nineties. Um, and then the numbers that matriculate end up being roughly in the, the mid 40 range. So there are a couple things to take from that, right? So one we talked about before was, you know, the 60 or so percent of students that are qualified that will not get an offer, um, have done everything right, have the right GPA, have the right gees, have the shadowing hours, but yet they still can't get an offer. Um, but the other side of that is, is the number of, uh, offers that go out versus the number that will ultimately articulate.
Speaker 3 00:24:48 So, uh, if you look at those numbers, um, roughly for every two offers that are made, one student will actually show up. So, uh, the other students might go onto a different PT program or they might just not choose physical therapy at all. Maybe they do something else. Um, those numbers have changed a little bit. The last two years. We're, we're seeing a, uh, a reduction in the number of applicants, um, and the number of qualified applicants, uh, over the last couple of years. Um, it hasn't reached a point where it's been super impactful, but, uh, I think that number's a little bit higher now. So I think there's roughly, uh, three students will get an offer for every one that's admitted.
Speaker 2 00:25:28 Can you speak a little bit more to that? What are the things that you're seeing that, um, is keeping them from meeting the criteria? I mean, is it something basic, like a course or is, are, are there other items?
Speaker 3 00:25:38 Yeah, I, I don't think it's a, um, I, I, I think it's more coming from a, a place of their fewer and fewer undergraduate college students. So because there are fewer undergraduate college students that lends to fewer qualified applicants, um, that's been a trend nationwide across, uh, all professions. So, so as fewer students choose to go undergraduate, which is where many of these students ultimately discover physical therapy, it's, it's fascinating. So, uh, so I know myself, I, I injured myself playing football in, in eighth grade and that's kind of where I found my passion for physical therapy. Um, but as we're interviewing people, a lot of people that we, we talked to, you know, discover it their, you know, sophomore year or junior year or even sometimes their senior year of college. Um, so if they're not in college to begin with, then that's obviously they're not gonna find a path a path there.
Speaker 3 00:26:29 Um, and then obviously as the fewer and fewer people, we get going through undergraduate, uh, now it becomes more competitive to get them. So now you have not only physical therapy programs fighting over them, but then also, um, you know, some other related fields, you know, medicine or, or PA or NP or things like that, um, might be fighting, you know, athletic training might be fighting for these candidates as well. So it is, it is becoming a more competitive environment and, and hopefully it doesn't get to the point where we don't have enough qualified applicants to, to fill programs. But, um, but as of right now, it, it's, it's getting more competitive than, than it has been in previous years.
Speaker 2 00:27:06 And going back to the number of slots that you get as far as, um, through your accreditation. So that's not really determined based on need in the workforce environment. It's just based on if a program decides to take on physical therapy, what their program can handle it's. Is that how it
Speaker 3 00:27:24 Goes? Yes, ma'am yeah. So it's, it's not related to need in the workforce. And, and I think that cap D is limited to the number of new PT programs that can be established in any given year. And I, I think, I wanna say it's one to two programs a year can be added. Um, so it's not like it's not like 20 programs can start a PT program tomorrow. Um, and then so essentially once those programs establish how many people they can take, you know, Capt will look at, you know, how many faculty, which, what kind of resources, and then they'll, they'll credit them that way. Uh, one of the articles that came out of a Capt the other day, I, I figure what ACAP stands for, but it's the, something like the academy of, of academic physical therapists, uh, out of the, a PTA, uh, they wrote an article, uh, a couple of weeks back based off of the, uh, a P T uh, workforce data.
Speaker 3 00:28:15 And essentially what the workforce data shows that, uh, in the next couple of years, I wanna say in the next 20 years, we're gonna have a, uh, these numbers might not be perfect. I don't have them on top of my head, but it's something like in the next 20 years, we're gonna have a 10% surplus in physical therapists nationwide. So what that means is for every 10 jobs, we will have 11 PTs. Now that's not the environment we're facing now. Right. So, right right now, uh, the environment is if you graduate from physical therapy program and get your, your get your, you know, you pass your N PTE and get licensed, um, you know, uh, employment rates like 99%. So if, if you, if you are a physical therapist, uh, and you can probably attest to this as well, uh, you're getting job offers and job inquiries all the time, people are, are always trying to find you and always trying to, to, to take you and, and plug you into a role there's, there's more jobs than there are physical therapists.
Speaker 3 00:29:12 Um, now the alarm bells have gone off through ACAP and other and other things, um, because there is going to be a surplus and, and some viewing this as a negative thing. I'm, I'm honestly viewing this as a, as a positive thing. Um, I look at, uh, you know, when I worked in various clinics, uh, such as, you know, when I was at Travis air force base and things like that, um, the number, the, the types of patients we saw depended on how many physical therapists we had. So, um, there were times that we had, we were very short staffed, you know, if people went to combat or things like that, and we only had two physical therapists, uh, we had to take our most acute patients at that time. And there were times that we were only taking post-operative ortho patients. We were only taking patients that have already gone underneath the knife and no one else, um, because we just, we didn't have the manpower to do it.
Speaker 3 00:29:59 And then as we got more and more manpower, then we were able to expand out, you know, now we can take, you know, people that don't, that aren't post-op, and now we can take people that are over 65, and now we can take, you know, these different clientele. And then, you know, as our manpower even got better and better, that's when we were able to spread out and have physical therapists in the emergency department, or have physical therapists, you know, embedded in, in primary care clinics. I think that's what we're gonna see going forward with physical therapists is, you know, as we come into a surplus position, you're gonna see physical therapists filling needs in primary care clinics, filling needs in emergency rooms. Uh, there are primary care, uh, residencies that are popping up all the time. I think there's one being worked in a VA up in, up in Minnesota. I know there's another primary care physical therapy residency in Palo Alto, California. Um, so that's gonna be the future, but we can't get there if we can't, even if we don't have enough PTs to even see our post-operative patients, we can't expand into these other roles.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 Uh, I can totally see that happening as a business owner. You know, I know so many businesses that cannot, that wanna grow and expand and have the demand for patients, but they can't find the physical therapist to fill the position. So I do think what you're gonna see, and maybe it even results in, you know, lower volume clinics versus, um, you know, therapists having to see so many patients at one time, of course, reimbursement goes along with that as well, but sometimes it's just the workforce need, you know, that you're seeing a lot of patients in the day, like you said, cuz you're the only physical therapist there to, you know, to treat 'em. So I agree. I, I think that a lot of positives and, and probably won't wind up being as much of a surplus just because of the way we're growing and expanding as a profession. Well, you've given us a lot, uh, to think about and I think some really good tips that I've never thought about that hopefully the students listening, um, are, are writing 'em down and will be able to add to their application when they apply to physical therapy school. But you are from high point university. So I'd like for you to just tell us a little bit more about your program.
Speaker 3 00:32:02 Oh, well, yeah. Thank you so much. Um, uh, one of the reasons I, I came to high point university is, uh, high point university has been ranked number one, uh, school in the south for 10 consecutive years by us news. And that's great. You know, when I, when I looked at, um, coming into academia, I really wanted to go to a school that, that is looking to be the best and, and looking to, um, to not just be a mediocre school and, and, you know, being ranked number one by us news 10 consecutive years is, uh, is, is just an impressive feed. Um, I would argue that we have the best PT facilities in the nation for those that have, that have seen them. It's, it's, uh, quite shocking. We have a human performance lab, uh, that is huge. We have a, um, uh, we have a gate analysis lab and virtual reality lab where patients can essentially, uh, work on different, uh, gate styles in a, in a virtual reality computer games setting that that allows 'em to do it safely.
Speaker 3 00:33:01 Um, so I, I think we have the best facilities in the nation on top of being the number one school in the south. Uh, some of our focuses at high point university is we, we really try to look at pushing the boundaries of a physical therapy. So, uh, we're not focused as much as on making purely entry level physical therapists. We're really looking at making people, uh, ex exceptional physical therapists. So they're gonna go on and be experts in the field and truly be leaders in, uh, in our profession. So a couple of things we do to, to do that, uh, we actually have a dual MBA program where, uh, as you're going through physical therapy school, you can obtain your, your MBA, uh, during the exact same timeframe. I think it's only one extra course a semester or something like that. Um, so those that are looking at being business owners or those that are looking at, um, you know, being rehab directors or things like that, and going up the chain as far as leadership, um, this will really propel them in that direction and, and help get them, you know, some of the higher paying, uh, salaries in the area.
Speaker 3 00:34:08 Um, the clinically we're focused on, uh, primary care. So I teach in the primary care curriculum. We have 60 hours of, uh, contact hours in diagnostic imaging. When you look at, uh, the nationwide average is closer to 24. So we're really kind of pushing that primary care focus, um, within our curriculum, we're talking about differential diagnosis, you know, is this back pain or is this cancer? And when our, when our students graduate, they're not just going to be standing in a gym and counting to 10, right? So every, every single program in the nation is gonna tell you how to stand in the gym and count to 10 that's. That is the lowest bar that you can expect, but here you're gonna be finding cancer here. You're gonna be finding, you know, which patients have abdominal aortic aneurysms, and, you know, you're gonna be, uh, finding these things, routing for the care they need for the imaging they need for the labs they need.
Speaker 3 00:35:02 Um, and that makes us really proud of, of where we're going as profession, cuz that is the future. We are doctorally trained neuromuscular scale experts. We're not personal trainers. And that is the, the future of our profession is to get into these roles. Some of the other things that make us unique is our pain science curriculum, uh, as well as our focus on the social determinants of health. Uh, we have a lot of community interactions with our pro bono clinics working with, uh, underserved populations. Those that, uh, either are underinsured or don't have healthcare, um, insurance at all. Um, so we have a full-time pro bono clinic that addresses those things. Um, and we're seeing, uh, we're seeing patients come from all over the, all over the region. And frankly, a lot of our patients are, um, from all over the world. So we have patients that are coming in with, with all sorts of different backgrounds and, and uh, languages. And, and it's really fascinating to, uh, to see the diversity of, of patients we have, uh, in the clinic.
Speaker 2 00:36:06 Well, that sounds like a great program. So, uh, I hope everybody took a lot of good notes and I hope that you'll consider high point university as one of your, uh, places that you will apply to. And Lance, I just wanna thank you for your time. This, this information's invaluable. I mean, how many times do you get to talk to the person that's actually part of the admissions committee? So, uh, I really hope that everybody heeds your advice and, uh, that they'll, they'll themselves get into physical therapy school as a result.
Speaker 3 00:36:34 All right. Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 00:36:37 Thank you for your time. And uh, we hope everybody will join us the next time. If you wanna follow lifestyle physical therapy, you can find us on social media at lifestyle PT. Two. I know Lance is on LinkedIn. You can see some of his comments there and I'm on LinkedIn as well. Feel free to send in, uh, any questions that you have at, uh, lifestyle PT at bell, south.net. Thank you. And until next time,
Speaker 1 00:37:00 Thank you for joining us for today's show. Make sure to follow us at lifestyle PT two on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. You can also listen to past podcast on Amazon music, apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube.
